VIDEO BLOG
Episode 4: “Fighting a Tribal Enemy”
Lessons from Alexander, the Brits, the Russians. What qualities make tribal fighters such formidable opponents—and how can they be beaten?
View the credits and transcript for Episode 4.
A MESSAGE FROM STEVE
Please join the discussion below. If you have served in Iraq or Afghanistan or are serving now, your contribution is especially valuable. Feel free to post anonymously or to hold back unit designations or locations. Tell it like it is!
-Steven Pressfield
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20 Responses to “Episode 4: “Fighting a Tribal Enemy””
Mr Pressfield is correct about tribes and tribalism. But I find little good about tribalism . He very correctly pointed out the near perfect symbiosis of Islam and tribalism. They are one in the same. So let’s look at the tribal muslim world. Is the muslim/tribal world prosperous? Generally no they are poor with the exception of the oil states who won the “geologic lottery” . Are the tribal/muslim countries free? No they are almost ALL totalitarian dictatorships. Do they tribal /muslim countries invent or create things? No. The number of patents coming from the muslim world is less than those coming from California. Jews alone account for something like 25 % of all nobel winners. I beleive there has not been a muslim Nobel laureate in this last century. How do tribal /muslim countries treat women/gays and minorities?? Generally awful. Women are property. Gays are killed. Honor killings and stonings. In summary : tribalism is bad. It is throwback system . Anti-modern. The west is best. We are the model not them. I just wish folks here in the USA would fight as hard for our way of life, our traditions, THIS country.
Non-western “tribal” people have a tendency toward polygamy and first cousin marriage,( my son is also my cousin) creating a strong genetic commonality that gives them staying power over manufactured tribes such as the marines, or modern western nation states that worship diversity. Also the inbred extended family is a way of preserving wealth within the family in a austere environment.
I’d like to respond to skeptic doc if I may.
Whether or not the tribal way is best is pretty subjective, now isn’t it? According to the videos we’ve seen tribesman thinks it’s just great. That you seek to refute its value using Western standards as a yardstick proves my point. We here in the West view our way as best naturally because we’ve grown up in it and in turn pass it on to our children.
And then there is your point that you wish us to fight just as hard for our way of life as tribesman do for theirs. What makes anyone think we’re capable of that? Our entire way of life holds the notion of the individual to be of more value than any other social unit (meanwhile ironically pushing ever more conformity to societal norms… but that’s another argument) rendering us virtually incapable of such efforts.
I too was a Marine as a young man and a Soldier after that. I have to agree totally with M. Pressfields summation of tribes. I’ve lived our military version for several years and I still feel the sense of identity, belonging, pride and all that goes with it. I suspect I’ll never lose it nor do I wish to. But I’m certainly not naive enough to think that we’ll win against or tribal foes because we possess a more advanced society. Nor will all our technological might win the battle for us. The likely scenario is that, like so many others before us, one day we’ll decide to cut our losses in Afghanistan and just go home.
From Luke Larsen, Marine infantry lieutenant, 2XIraq vet, in Ramadi during the Awakening:
Steve,
I just watched the videos and they are phenomenal. I especially like your three points in the last video:
1)Can’t change afghanistan to beverly hills
2) limited goals – just deny the area for an terrorist breeding ground (Mission accomplished signs on aircraft carriers should be kept at bay)
3) WORK WITH TRIBABLISM
This last point is dead on. One of the common phrases one would hear from junior military officers would be I don’t need another “F’ing peice of gear- give me language training.” The guys on the ground living out in the ville get it. Gen P- sums it up nicely with, “The people are the prize.”
I think in relation to tribalism the point is that you don’t focus on the enemy focus on the people. If you win over the people the enemy will quickly fade away.
From Capt. Tony Atler, like Luke Larsen above, a Marine infantry officer, two-time Iraq veteran, also in Ramadi during the Awakening … and an Annapolis grad.
Luke will probably agree with me in saying that you are definitely in the black with these concepts. It’s unfortunate that this level of analysis and discussion didnt play a major role in our preparation for either Ramadi deployment (at least not mine and Luke you’re a jerk if kept it to yourself), but it definitely doesn’t need to be that way for the current and future generations. So thank you for putting the effort into this. Instead, we really got a crash course or on the job training in tribalism and followed suit in opposing it all together in 2005/06 and then changed gears in 2007 and tried to use it to our adantage as much as possible.
I think one of the most arrogant mistakes I made was getting real excited about peeling back the tribal onions in Ramadi to a point at which I believed it would be possible to manipulate them. And within the half a year we had with them, ha! At that time I obviously didn’t understand what we were working with at all. I agree that outright change based on a westernized, logical cost-benefit analysis isn’t a realistic option. At best we can make very suddle suggestions that could prime psychological changes over very long periods. Or at least the best when your hands are tied from making some major ‘deals’. Like I said, I’m interested to see how some folks respond.
When Iraqis would ask about the difference between the U.S. Marines and the U.S. Army I would often explain it in terms of tribes in that the Army in Ramadi wasn’t much of a tribe at all. I think they understood that and it explained a lot of the jack-assery that Marines and Iraqis had to put up with from the Army units in the area. I still get emails from some of the civilians in Ramadi and one of their biggest concerns (6 months ago at least) was that the Marines were either leaving or being replaced by U.S. Army units. That’s another topic though perhaps.
I’m currently a student at USD’s business school pursuing a degree in Global Leadership and had an interesting class last semester on the global society. For a guy with no sociology background the movement from gemeinschafts to gesellschafts or the evolution from horticultural societies to the post-industrial western ones it really tied a lot loose ends together. Your video blogs are aligned very well with part of the course material and I plan on sending a link to those instructors as well as the program director (retired Navy SEAL CAPT and previous head of ethics dept at USNA). On that note, a class in sociology probably would have been more valuable to me than one in how to navigate a ship back in Anapolis as well.
“the difference between the U.S. Marines and the U.S. Army ”
The Marine Corps is smaller than the Army. Therefore the Marine Corps can be pickier in recruiting than the Army can. So it is easier for high school dropouts and convicted felons to get into the Army than into the Marine Corps. This makes a big difference. Someone who was an undisciplined troublemaker in civilian life is going to continue to be an undisciplined troublemaker in the Army. Unfortunately, with the nation tied down in two wars with no draft, there is little or nothing the Army can do about this.
From Shahzad Khan in Peshawar, Pakistan. Originally sent to me via YouTube:
Hi Sir,
I have just seen all the four videos about the tribes. I really appreciate your research and study. Most of the people of the world doesn’t know about the values and cultures of the tribal people and you have given them a very very clear picture of the tribal people. Though I am a computer science student; yet I love history, archaeology and anthropology.
I am going to share your videos with all my friends.
My introduction:
My name is Shahzad Khan. My ancesters belonged to Orakzai tribe in Pakistan, near the Pak-Afghan border. Few of the Orakzai tribesmen left the agency some 125 years ago and moved to Peshawar during the British rule and served the British government in Peshawar. I am a descendant of this particular branch who left then completely became citizens. I have done Bachelors in Computer Sciences and now longing for Masters.
Thank you very much for sharing your views and uploading your videos on YouTube. Your joining date shows that you have joined youtube just a week ago. Nice to see people of your age joining this mostly watched video website; most of the members are young guys like me. I am sure its really encouraging for other people of your age as well.
We are waiting for some more videos from you Sir.
Regards.
Shahzad Khan
Peshawar (City of Gardens)
Pakistan.
From Shahzah Khan in Peshawar, Pakistan. Originally sent to me via YouTube:
Hi Sir,
I have just seen all the four videos about the tribes. I really appreciate your research and study. Most of the people of the world doesn’t know about the values and cultures of the tribal people and you have given them a very very clear picture of the tribal people. Though I am a computer science student; yet I love history, archaeology and anthropology.
I am going to share your videos with all my friends.
My introduction:
My name is Shahzad Khan. My ancesters belonged to Orakzai tribe in Pakistan, near the Pak-Afghan border. Few of the Orakzai tribesmen left the agency some 125 years ago and moved to Peshawar during the British rule and served the British government in Peshawar. I am a descendant of this particular branch who left then completely became citizens. I have done Bachelors in Computer Sciences and now longing for Masters.
Thank you very much for sharing your views and uploading your videos on YouTube. Your joining date shows that you have joined youtube just a week ago. Nice to see people of your age joining this mostly watched video website; most of the members are young guys like me. I am sure its really encouraging for other people of your age as well.
We are waiting for some more videos from you Sir.
Regards.
Shahzad Khan
Peshawar (City of Gardens)
Pakistan.
From “Mojib,” originally posted via YouTube:
hello sir!
If we look at the tribalism in the world . The Afghan(Pashtoons) tribes are more different exclusive in their structure and forms and way of life. one of Afghan intellectual said once that if our afghan tribes are left to determine their own future , they will certainly choose to overcome the fundamental changes and laws and will choose to step up with the world’s other citizens, gradually towards the 21st century. the main reason why these Afghan(pashtoons) tribes didnt change yet is because no body in the world have continuiesly worked to give them chance, and no body have understood yet their social life and about their past 6000 years history . They have been the most and in forefront the freedom fighters not only for the sake of their own people but also for their nighbourhood, even for the outside people of Asia . they have struggeled for to attain peace and stability for the other nations in the world, but unfortunately made to tolarate the injustice which were going on over them. The only way to change the tribalism and submitt the total law instead the sective law we have to focus on their social forms and give the chance to the people to make their own fate and change their own life from their own hands , if others intervene this will always make the scenario harder and not just worse for the world but also will bring the disasters innside the home country where the tribes are situated. nothing changes by force, or dectatorship, obviously the ego attitude and force will never bow any tribe s individual person but stricktly their own people who belongs to the main tribe can only bring changes and make the people to believe in positive change. The democracy that the American and Nato are offering them is by force and dectatorship and mostly injustice by killing them will never work . our Afghan tribes have the democratic laws which they have been resolving their problems on and on, and if we look at the History of Americans we can see that they have always been intervening in the lives of different tribes, nations and societies and oppressing them towards their type rules and regulations, the old example is Red Indians who were the native of America and the Hispanians have named them red-indians and brought mesries. In the same way they are now intervening in the lives of diferent asian tribes, although the scenario , history, culture and times were different but the Americans still want to repeat the history and make the people to keep on with the war and americans have kept on their egos . everytime Americans say change , and always demand for the democracy but people who watch them and have studied about them can easily analyse and say that American society itself needs changes and they are not democratic as others but can be named american democracy which is not respected in Europe , Asia , Australia, and Africa.
Stretch,
Great summation. Can’t argue with anything. However, rather than depend on the moderate voices to come forward, I would argue that “moderate viewpoints” will come forward from the young, due to (as you said) satellites, the internet, the rise in women power. I’ve always said the Berlin Wall fell thanks to Levis and Rock and Roll.
For 40 years, the Russians could tell their kids that the west was bad and the west was evil and the west would do them in, so they were prepared hate us and resist us.
Well, after all those WWII guys got old and died, the kids couldn’t figure it out. What was so bad about the West? We hadn’t hurt them (during their lifetime) and the West had good stuff like Levis, music and lots of sex. Each new generation wants more of that the the one preceeding it had. ‘Twas always thus–everywhere.
So, if we can keep the lid on and (which as you mentioned is their greatest fear) let western ideas slowly percolate in, things will change and the tribes will lose out to “drugs”, sex and rock and Roll. (Of course, I don’t mean “drugs” in the literal sense. I men western style liveral democracy and freedom–which is the ultimate drug.
Great series. Well shot and well articulated.
Best,
Jeffrey
Some primates establish territories around food sources, like a grove of banana trees, and defend them with small bands of males patrolling the perimeter. Generally, two or three primates will hunt for intruders from other bands at their border. If they can find a single intruder, they’ll ambush and kill him. If more than one, they’ll disengage.
It’s very likely that early humans organized themselves the same way. The pattern is recognizeable in human history. The ancient Greek city-states often went to war because of border disputes over farmland taken over by one city or the other. The Apaches drove off other tribes from New Mexico hills they claimed for their game.
Islam is a religion all about borders. It divides the world into the dar al-Islam (House of Islam) and dar al-Harb (House of War). Those borders are bloody. Islam also believes that any land conquered by Islam is forever Islamic. Muslims still pine for their lost empire in Spain, Andalusia. They also object to the Jews carving Israel out of the Middle East which the Muslims conquered from the Christians. Still, none of this would matter were it not for Saudi petrodollars which fuel the worst of Islam and amplify its belligerence.